I’ve heard two stories in just as many days about people who paid one of those TV tax companies thousands of dollars to help them with their IRS debt and when all was said and done, all they got was a monthly installment agreement with the IRS. I’ve got a big problem with that–because in both of those cases, the people could have used that money to pay down their debt–and done the installment agreement themselves for free.
While not everyone can handle their IRS tax debt problem themselves, before you go sending thousands of dollars to some company with a 1-800 phone number, lets see if you can handle this yourself for free first.
The first question: Do you really owe the money in the first place? That’s pretty important. If your taxes were professionally prepared and you have a huge balance due-well you probably really do owe the IRS. On the other hand, if you haven’t filed for several years and the IRS says you owe them lots of money–there’s a good chance you don’t. Anybody does taxes better than the IRS–anybody! The CPA down the hall, H&R Block, VITA, the really bad tax place I won’t name down the street, and even my high school intern — they all do taxes better than the IRS.
True story: a couple of years ago, I had a high school intern while I was working at the big tax company. She had only been there for a couple of days, she was supposed to help with the phones, photo copies and data entry type stuff. A woman came to me with an IRS tax debt of $16,000. I took the case, but I was busy working on another return so I asked the intern to just do the basic data entry work for me. A little while later she came to me and said, “I did the data entry but I’m afraid you’re going to have to show me what I’m doing wrong.” “What do you mean,” I asked, “It’s just data entry.” “I know,” she said, “But I heard you say she owes the IRS $16,000 and on all the returns I input she’s got refunds!”
I looked over everything the girl had done. It was perfect. Instead of the woman owing the IRS $16,000, the IRS owed her $8,000. So when I tell you that anybody prepares a tax return better than the IRS–I’m not kidding. Now you can go to an IRS office and they will help you with a return–those people know what they’re doing (usually), but those computer generated IRS returns that get mailed to you are garbage. Plain and simple.
Second question: Do you owe less than $50,000? If you owe more than $50,000, you won’t be able to do an IRS streamline installment agreement. If you can pay enough on the debt to bring it to $50,000 or less, then you can still do the streamline–otherwise you are going to want to get some help with your debt. But let’s say you owe $52,000. Well, you could pay some tax company $8,000 to negotiate for you, but if you paid $2,000 towards the debt, you could negotiate for yourself and still have $6,000 more pay your debt or buy groceries or whatever.
Third question: How much can you afford to pay each month? Let’s say you got hit with an IRS bill of $6,000 and you just didn’t have any money saved to pay it. Realistically, look at your financial situation and figure out what you can afford. What’s the most you could possibly pay without causing yourself a hardship? That’s going to be your upper limit number. You need to think it through because you don’t want to commit to paying $500 a month if it means you lose your house.
Here’s the mechanics of it: In a perfect world–you should be able to pay of your IRS debt within 2 years (24 months.) So if you take that $6000 and divide it by 24, then your monthly payment would be $250. And if you can afford that–great! That’s the preferred timeline for the IRS to have you pay off your debt.
But if you can’t handle the $250 a month, you need to know that the IRS will go as far as 72 months (or six years) for you to pay off the debt. So if you take $6,000 and divide that by 72 then you get $85 dollars a month (I rounded up to the nearest 5.)
What you might want to do is negotiate the $85 payment, but then pay the $250 to get rid of the debt faster. That way you’ve got some wiggle room if you lose your job or have some other issue.
Here’s the other stuff you’ve got to know:
There is a fee of $105 for setting up the installment agreement. It’s lower if you set up direct debit from your checking account or it may be reduced if your income is low–make sure you ask about it, they won’t always tell you.
If you’re trying to negotiate a payment agreement and things are just not going your way, it’s okay to
back out before you commit. Tell them that you think you’re going to need professional help and that you will have to call them back later.
Once you do have an agreement, you have to hold up your end of it. Make your payments on time. If you’re late, your installment agreement is void and you’ll have to start all over again–including the $105 fee for setting up the agreement. (Not to mention those nasty letters they send about putting a lien on your home and levying your bank account.)
One final word, if you can’t handle the installment agreement yourself–maybe your tax issue is too complex or you’re just too intimidated to deal with the IRS, get help from a local professional. You’ll need an enrolled agent or CPA because they’re licensed to represent you before the IRS. I recommend using someone local (okay, someone like me) that you can meet with in person. Sometimes, IRS debt issues will cost a few thousand dollars to settle up, depending upon the work that needs to be done. But it’s important to know what is going to be done before you pay that kind of money out. $8,000 for something you can do yourself is too high a price. Ask questions, know why they’re charging you that much, and what you’re getting for it. You have a right to know.
Hi Lydia,
You are in bankruptcy. Right now, they can’t go after you until the bankruptcy is completed. You can though, make voluntary payments. I would do that if you can afford anything.
I am currently unemployed and in a chapter 13 payment plan (less than a year left). I owe the IRS over $3k for 2017. I don’t have money to pay it and they said I cannot make a payment arrangement because I am in a bankruptcy. What are my options?
Hi Alicia,
You lost your job so your income is greatly reduced. Contact the IRS, make sure you explain that your income is lower, and negotiate a payment arrangement based upon your current income. Make sure you are current on your estimated taxes for 2018 – which is sounds like you are. The IRS will probably have you complete form 433-A the collection statement. You’ll list your income, expenses and assets. They’ll use that information to determine how much they expect you to be able to pay.
Hi Katherin,
When you did the OIC, you wrote a check. You should have written a check. Did it get cashed? If not, the IRS never got the OIC. If it did get cashed, then you have an argument. My check was cashed on X date and I never heard back, I’m following up, etc.
It sounds to me like you’ve got balance dues on a couple of different tax years. Now – if you want an OIC, you can’t have a balance due that you can’t pay this year. So maybe it’s better that they haven’t done anything with it. Although they may be working on it if you’re not getting any requests for payment. The IRS stops collection action when they are working on an OIC.
I think your best bet is to get some professional help with this. Figure out all of the debt owed, and wrap it together either into an OIC or an installlment. But most importantly, get a handle on making sure you’ll owe nothing for 2018. That’s the best advice I can give anyone. The best way to settle your old debt with the IRS is to make sure you’re up to date with withholding or estimated tax payments. It makes the IRS much easier to negotiate with. Good luck!
Hi Belinda,
The IRS will continue keeping your refunds until all of your tax debt is paid. You may also want to check to see if there are other debts they are holding for like state taxes or back child support or student loans. There are lots of reasons for the IRS to hold your refund. But first and foremost, they will pay themselves.
My wife and I owe roughly 100K for back taxes. They have filed a lien on the house. We have filed all outstanding returns, paid off the state, and have had a year of making prepayment installments for estimated taxes. I just lost my job, 6 months ago… I want to start making payments to the IRS to get them off our back, but it has to be minimal. Obviously, the interest and penalties are still adding up. What should I do to try and get in their good graces, and see if I can get any relief from my debt?
i worked for a company that went out of business in 2016 I was paid referrals no taxes taken out basically they just deposited money into my account I work paycheck to paycheck even on 30k income annual… I owe this year due to my paychex company not taking out enough taxes federal I assume…I owe $11K from 2015 ,but I did an installment and OIC that i NEVER HEARD back from them I used to receive invoices for a balance i wed from 2012 that was liek $498 that i MAKE $20-25 MONTHLY I am scared bc I cannot pay them and my husband and i DO NOT HAVE THE FUNDS TO PAY $11K HELP!
The irs have been keeping my refund for the last three years my bill was 3,500. They have kept at 2,000. But the bill is higher? For 2013 tax year.
Hi Sadie, I’d call the IRS and talk to them about your financial circumstances. Using your income and expenses, they can help figure out either a payment plan, or put you into the currently uncollectible status. Before you call, you should fill out form 433A.
That’s the collection information statement. It’s what the IRS asks you for when you’re trying to negotiate a lower payment. It will help you figure out what you can-or cannot pay.
Hi yes I wanted to know what kind of lists of hardships can I show the Irs I’m having because I can’t afford to pay off a tax debt of $14,000 for the year 2015 and I’m only on SSI and my husband is employed but only makes $30,000/yearly & barely get by as it is & I have a lifelong chronic illness as well that is incurable .
Hi Carlos,
My best bet is that the IRS will take your refund unless you file an amended return to correct that mistake. And they will need to process that return also.
I owe 13000 to the irs on a mistake i made in 2015 if i call today irs and make or try to find some solution will they still take all my 2017 refund.
Hi Jada,
Those penalties really add up don’t they? Let’s look at the 2011 money. So, you didn’t fail to file, but you did make a mistate with a balance due of 4,500. You’ve been hit with a failure to pay penalty. That’s 1/2 of one percent per month until you reach 25% – which you have. So that’s $1,125 right there. Then you add in the interest which is about $900 so far and you’re up to $6,525.
So if you owed late filing and late payment on 2016, that would bring them up to $11,250 per year. I’m estimating high on purpose. I’m still not getting up to 43k.
It sounds to me like there’s more debt here. I’d call back and ask them for a complete year by year break down of the actual tax owed and the penalty and interest break down. You’re right, something doesn’t seem to be adding up here.
I have a tax bill from back taxes for about 20k for taxes owed in 2014, and 2016, I also owe for 2011 but it was because I prepared wrong not failed to file. So with a 4.5k bill for 2011, 7.5 for 2014, and 7.5 for 2016. My total was about 20k. I called the IRS and offered to pay 280 a month (20K divided by 72). The rep said No and that she could take a minimum of 485 a month if I streamline and 598 a month if I want to have it paid in full in 72 months….I was astonished by the amount of interest and penalties I would end up paying. The total would be 43k, that the 20k bill plus 23K in interest and penalties…does this sound right?
Hi Everado,
Probably the easiest way is to call them and ask. 1 800- 829-1040. You’ll want to speak with a real human and have her give you a break out of everything you owe – including penalties and interest if it’s been computed. If you haven’t filed returns, they might not be able to give you all that but it’s a starting point.
How can I know how much I own the IRS ?
Hi Sandra,
Hmmmm. Whether you try now, or try later, I’m in favor of the ex forking over what he owes you. But that’s another issue.
Okay, here’s the most important piece of advice I can give you. Absolutely, positively, in no uncertain terms: You must be caught up with your estimated tax payments in order to qualify for an IRS offer in compromise.
So – let’s say your ex ponies up what he owes you and you get all caught up for 2017. Your paperwork gets filed and the IRS sits on it for another 6 to 9 months, maybe even a year. Then, they finally call you back and the first thing they are going to look at is – are you up to date with your estimated tax payments? And once again, they are going to say you need to pay up or the offer is a no go.
But there’s more – Let’s say you’ve paid up and all is wonderful and the offer goes through. Then–you fall behind on your taxes later. They can, and they will, void your offer and you’ll owe all of the money again. Ouch!
So – what you need to do is make sure that you have a way to stay on top of those taxes – and I’m guessing you’ll need to figure that out without the ex. He still owes you that money – you do need to get it, but the reliability of getting money from exes isn’t real good. So moving ahead, you’ll have to pay your estimated taxes from your self-employment income. As soon as you’ve got that figured out, then re-submit your OIC. Good luck.
Hi Jan,
First of all, thank you for being so helpful!
I am working on an OIC and the IRS just responded saying they won’t even consider it unless I get up to date on my 2017 estimated taxes. (Self employed, lost home, cancer, divorce…it’s been an ugly 5 years!) Should I wait until the beginning of 2018 to try again or get the ex to fork over a large chunk of what he owes me to get 2017 caught up and keep trying with this application? Do you need more information?
Hi Brenda,
If you’re going to get an installment plan, you may as well pay both years. I mean, if you’re able to pay something now you can pay something now, right? And if you made enough money to have a tax balance due – well, it’s a little harder to swallow that you’re currently uncollectable.
But – here’s the thing. Maybe you are! I think your best bet is to call the IRS and explain the situation. I messed up in 2015, and I didn’t have my withholding fully straight for 2016, but I’ve got my act together now and I’m withholding enough for 2017. I mean, you did fix that now haven’t you? Haven’t you? If you haven’t adjusted your withholding, before you do anything, do that now. You do not, I repeat DO NOT want to be stuck owing the IRS come tax time next year.
And clearly, you need to withhold enough, rather than save enough to pay. You’ve got a history going here, so withhold enough to cover your taxes.
I know, I’m hitting you over the head with this. I don’t really need to, because the IRS agent you speak to on the phone is going to do the same thing. But call the IRS anyway, because you need to be the one who’s on top of this, and not have them come to you. Good luck.
I’m in a Currently Uncollectible Status by IRS. That was completed in mid-2016. I am now short for my 2017 tax bill. Will requesting an installment plan for new tax bill negate the CNC status?
any suggestions on how to best handle? I’m planning on doing an OFI later this Fall now that I’m working and have a chance to save money.
Brenda
Hi Tammy, Probably the most important thing is to contact the IRS and your state to let them know you want to work out a solution, you just need some time. Depending upon how much income you have, you may qualify for the “currently uncollectible” program. Basically, the IRS decides that you just don’t have the money to pay now, and they put off collection action. States are different so I don’t know how Louisiana will respond. If you do make enough money for payments, you’re probably looking at paying the IRS around $112 a month at the minimum. If you think you can pay something, but the $112 would be too much, you may be able to work out a lower payment by filling out some paperwork.
The bottom line is, you’ve got some options. It’s just a matter of making the calls and seeing what you can do. Good luck.
Our tax preparer just called for us to pick up our tax returns, in 2014 I went out of work from the postal service with an injury to my arm, in 2015 I was approved for disability retirement through both the usps and social security, however, I had an outstanding TSP loan for $32806.75. The Tsp closed the loan by declaring it a taxable distribution, since we could not keep up the payments. We now owe the IRS $8000.00 when we file. We live in Louisiana, and also owe $1000.00 in state taxes. Being on disability, we obviously don’t have $8000.00 just lying around. What are our options on paying this back, and what kind of interest rate and penalties would we be looking at? We are in desperate need of advice. Thanks in advance.
Hi Monique,
It’s most likely that the IRS hasn’t gotten the amended return amount set against your 2016 refund, so you’ll just need to pay that bill. You can do that after your refund arrives.
hello i have a question. i already did my taxes this year. and filed an EITC and i know it comes in later this year. but after i didd my taxes i recieved a letter from irs stating i owe about $690.. will this effect my taxes. Can they just pull the while thing out. Or should i can and set up a payment arrangment. What should i do.? Its from doing an amenent last year and this is what i owed back it states
Hi Tina,
If he can’t afford to pay the whole $2500 now, then certainly set up a payment agreement. But do encourage him to pay if off as soon as possible.
Hello Jan I have a question my boyfriend owes $2500 should he set up payments with the IRS
Hi Paula,
You’ve hit upon one of my pet peeves-you set up an installment agreement and the interest and penalties keep mounting up and you don’t get it paid off! The best way to beat that is to increase your monthly payment. The more you pay each month, the faster you knock down that bill. You’re getting hit with the late payment penalty. That’s 1/2 of 1% per month for up to 25 months. So for the first year, that penalty was about $287. (Oh yeah, it goes down as your balance goes down, but you see how slow that is while they pile on the penalties.)
Now, if you filed late, there’s a late filing penalty of 5% per month. That stopped as soon as you filed so I don’t think that’s hurting you too much now. And then there is the IRS interest rate – which is only 3%, but still that’s another $143.
So, if your $71 a month all went towards your debt, you would now owe $3930. But as you can see, you’re getting hit by those fees.
So what else can you do besides paying more each month? If you’ve never been in tax trouble before, when you get to the end of your payments, you can ask the IRS for a penalty abatement. That’s where they forgive the late payment (and late filing if you had that) penalties. Don’t do it now, because then the penalties will start adding up again, you want to wait until you’re all paid up and then ask for the forgiveness. I’d ask once your balance goes down to about $1,000 – that should all be penalty. If they abate the penalty, then you’re all done. You can even do that over the phone if it’s a first time penalty abatement.
One thing, they will never forgive the interest you pay, only the penalty. But it’s well worth asking to have that penalty lifted.
Hello:
I’m in an installment agreement. Our balance was $4782. Our installment agreement is $71/mo. I just got our yearly statement, and with all the fees and interest only half of our payment were actually applied to the balance. Our new balance is $4428. I called and there’s nothing that can be done. I think it’s horrible than 50% of our payments are taken by fees and interest. Trying to talk to an IRS representative was like talking to a robot.
Hi Venkat,
Wow, look what happens when you try to do the right thing. I have a couple of thoughts and suggestions. First, you did use a CPA to help you file those returns, so you may want to get her input on this also, he’ll be closer to the work. But here’s my thinking- My best guess is that you and your wife are being hit with late filing penalties on a partnership return. Those amount to $195 per month per person until they reach the cap of one year. That’s where the $4680 per year comes from. Ouch!
My first thought is to request a penalty abatement. You’ll need to use form 843 https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f843.pdf. In box 5a, you’re going to want to check the box about “reasonable cause.” Explain, you were not living in the United States, you didn’t know about the rules, you are not a US citizen, you filed the returns immediately upon learning about the requirement, etc.
Like I said, you’ve been working with a CPA so have him help you with this. Good luck.
Hi,
Very valuable and actually helping article. Myself and my wife planned to start an LLC (we both are in India) and we did it in 2009 in Delaware. I was religiously paying the franchisee fee and state tax. And for years I did not know I have to file IRS returns, last year a friend of mine told me this and suggested to dissolve the LLC since we did not make any money even though we transacted about $200K in 7 years and we had to lose about $20K. But I was trying to make it a clean story and got a CPA to file all returns and he said there will be no $ charged since we made no money. Today I got an notice from IRS asking us to pay $4680 per year for 6 years. I almost died. My wife started crying. We are not in a state to even pay few hundreds and this is like almost killing us. We are very nervous and not sure if we should have just dissolved the company or closed it after 3 more years to make it 10 years etc. Any suggestions that you can give?
Ms. Roberg, Thank you for the response. When I called the IRS I got a decent person on the phone and she said to do exactly what you said in your response. What she also added (and surprised me) was that she asked me “why was I withdrawing money each year from my IRA”? She also said that she didnt mean to pry into my private life but I was willing to share the fact that I had lost my job a few years ago and am now making roughly 50% of what I was making in 2010. She said to write a letter (and enclose with ammended return form 5329) stating reasons why I was using my IRA early such as hardship bills, etc. She said maybe the examiner would take that into consideration and allow an exception for the entire amount that I withdrew early. I sent in the response package and await to hear back.
Hi Steven,
What you’ll probably need to do is prepare an amended tax return (form 1040X) including from 5329 showing the exception for the first time homebuyer exception. When you send the IRS letter back that notice, you’ll check the box that says “agree with some of the changes” and in the explanation part you’ll say “amended return enclosed”. With your 1040X, you won’t need to submit all the other forms, only the things that have changed, which for you would be the 5329. In the explanation box, you’ll write, “amending to show 10% penalty for early IRA distribution and first time homebuyer exception.”
I got a letter stating that I owe back taxes for 10% penalty on early IRA distribution. I agree with most of it but I did have an exception for 1st time home buyer ($10,000 max). I put more that $10k down on a house in 2013 and withdrew 34,000 from IRA. I agree that I owe 10% of 24,000 (not 10% of 34,000). Should I just respond with a disagreement and letter with home settlement statement and/or other documentation or should I call the IRS first.
Hi Lucia,
I’m thinking that an offer in compromise isn’t going to work for you as the debt is so low. (Yes, I know that $4,000 doesn’t seem low, but for an offer it is.) But I do have one thought- how much of your debt is actually penalties? The reason I ask is because often, a lot of an IRS balance due is penalties and interest. Now you can’t get the IRS to abate (forgive) the interest, but sometimes, you can get them to abate the penalties.
Here’s where I’m going with this. You say you’ve been paying off the debt for years and there’s $4,000 left. I’m guessing that the original bill was much more than $4,000. Late payment penalties alone can add up to 25% of your tax bill. So if this was all for one year (and maybe it was for more,) but you could call the IRS as find out how much of your bill is for the penalties (or the penalties for the first year of taxes that you owe on.)
So, maybe the penalties are $2,500 – just for argument sake. What you’d want to do is just as you’re about to pay off that $1,500 (that’s the $4,000 total you owe minus the $2,500 penalty) you call the IRS and ask them to abate the $2500 in penalties. (Or whatever dollar amount the penalties are.)
You don’t want to ask them to abate penalties until you’re ready to pay off the bill because otherwise the penalties will keep growing (and you’ll have already wasted your abatement.)
I know that sounds a little funky, but it’s worth a shot. The IRS allows people a one time abatement, so if you’ve been in tax trouble before, they won’t grant it. And if you owe for multiple years, they’ll only grant an abatement for the first year. But you have to ask, they won’t just grant it unless you ask them to. Good luck.
I only owe 4000 to IRS now… Ive been paying for years and is not much left but I would like to know if there is a settlement that I can do to pay it faster?
Hi Shannon,
My guess is that you don’t qualify for an offer in compromise–which is probably what you paid to get. I’m also getting that the contract says, “if an offer is not avaialable to the taxpayer we will arrange an installment agreement.” That’s pretty much what those contracts say. Don’t expect to get anything back from that lawyer. You can try to talk to the IRS about lowering your payment. The formula is the balance due divided by 72. You may need to submit financial statements if you want a lower payment. If your income is too high to qualify you for a lower payment, you won’t have much luck. I’m hoping your attorney did all that already.
Hi Charles,
What you’re signing is a document stating that you do agree with the adjustments to your tax return, which it sounds to me like you do. Signing that document is step one in getting your tax house in order. Whether you do an OIC or a payment installment agreement – you’ll need to come to terms with the IRS about what you actually owe first. If the auditor is correct, then sign the document.